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You're probably a Linux zealot if you believe [Jul. 2nd, 2004|05:42 pm]
linux sucks
linuxsucks
[uber_mensch]
-Outsourcing low skilled jobs is a shining example of capitalism in action, but outsourcing IT jobs is the most evil crime ever - unless Rob Malda works for the company that's doing it.
-Apple's proprietary video format is a brilliant idea, but Microsoft's is an abuse of their market position.
-The large number of worms is enough to get the average user to switch to a secure OS like Linux, even though most of these worms have spread because average users can't be bothered with security.
-Microsoft supported companies running anti-OSS stories is an abuse of power, but Slashdot is an impartial and OSDN owned balanced source of news.
-Linux is as easy to use as Windows, which is why some tech companies make a fortune out of training courses and Bible sized manuals.
-Microsoft are wrong to make money off support fees, but for Redhat it's OK.
-DMA is bad, unless it's for ITunes.
-Interfaces and concepts should not be patentable, unless it allows Apple to file a lawsuit against MS.
-All software should be open source, unless it's owned by Sourceforge or Apple.
linkReply

Comments:
From: prototype001
2004-07-19 05:53 pm (UTC)
-Microsoft are wrong to make money off support fees, but for Redhat it's OK.'
i'm sorry but we hate redhat also

'Microsoft supported companies running anti-OSS stories is an abuse of power, but Slashdot is an impartial and OSDN owned balanced source of news.'
i personaly don't like slashdot

'-Linux is as easy to use as Windows'
incorrect,but it's alot less buggy-as-fuck

'The large number of worms is enough to get the average user to switch to a secure OS like Linux, even though most of these worms have spread because average users can't be bothered with security.'
yeah,you can set up security,but it doesn't help that windows has no-security-whatsoever to start with
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[User Picture]From: ploskey12
2004-10-30 07:25 am (UTC)
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<<Outsourcing low skilled jobs is a shining example of capitalism in action, but outsourcing IT jobs is the most evil crime ever - unless Rob Malda works for the company that's doing it.>>
Outsourcing of any job is a mistake. The USA needs to enforce its trade agreements and discourage losing jobs to other countries.

<<Apple's proprietary video format is a brilliant idea, but Microsoft's is an abuse of their market position.>>
Where do people get the impression that Linux users love Apple so much? Apple may not be a monopoly, but it certainly isn't perfect. Proprietary formats are just a scheme to eak more profits out of a business scheme and edge out competition, much like Microsoft was trying to do in the browser wars of years past.

<<-The large number of worms is enough to get the average user to switch to a secure OS like Linux, even though most of these worms have spread because average users can't be bothered with security.>>
Then perhaps Microsoft should have implemented a working permissions system and eliminated vulnerabilities in their shoddy product. Viruses and spyware are a huge problem on Windows. I think there are 8 known viruses on Linux, all of which are limited in distribution and damage they can inflict. I don't really see an argument in this statement. Instead of embracing ignorance, how about helping your users be more secure?

<<-Microsoft supported companies running anti-OSS stories is an abuse of power, but Slashdot is an impartial and OSDN owned balanced source of news.>>
I don't know much about Microsoft support anti-OSS stories, but I do know that Microsoft has engineered a misleading ad campaign against Linux based on evidence it payed to generate. I read Slashdot on occasion, and it is a lot of people's views on many issues. It certainly isn't unbiased, the majority of the people posting there are users of open source software, but no one goes about claiming that it is some sort of beakon of truth in the news world. It's just a place for techies to see what's new and to debate.

<<-Linux is as easy to use as Windows, which is why some tech companies make a fortune out of training courses and Bible sized manuals.>>
I should hope that no one is making the claim that Linux is as easy to use as Windows. At this point, Linux is the domain of the more technically minded computer users. There are Bible-sized manuals for Windows, too. Windows can't do everything that windows can. Especially lacking is a functional the command line interface, which I have heard will be remedied in Longhorn. The Windows Shell, and multiple desktops... Microsoft is borrowing from Linux all the time. They see that it is becoming a major competitor in the server market and are scrambling to take out the competition with a ridiculous FUD campaign.

<<-Microsoft are wrong to make money off support fees, but for Redhat it's OK.>>
Ok, who gives a rat's ass? They're both offering a product, and they're offering support for it. That is understandable. What Redhat did was abandon its desktop market, and now it is just another company. I never really like Redhat anyways. I prefer Gentoo, for the portage system and for choice.

<<-DMA is bad, unless it's for ITunes.>>
Again with the Apple reference... I could care less.

<<-Interfaces and concepts should not be patentable, unless it allows Apple to file a lawsuit against MS.>>
The patenting of interfaces and concepts merely leads to a stagnant environment. The patent system is out of control in this country. The "double-click" is patentable? Apparently. I'd like to see that hold up in court.

<<-All software should be open source, unless it's owned by Sourceforge or Apple.>>
Last time I checked, SourceForge does not own the software it hosts on it's site. It hosts open source software websites and encourages innovation among a community of developers.

People who bash Linux have just sworn a blind allegiance to their corporate god and have closed their minds. Get a life.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-11-10 06:26 pm (UTC)
People who bash Linux have just sworn a blind allegiance to their corporate god and have closed their minds. Get a life.

Backup this statement, please.
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[User Picture]From: jaua
2004-12-09 05:39 am (UTC)
It's amazing to me that people are zealots about anything. I use linux because I find it challenging, and enjoy it. I do try to convert people here and there but only if they seem like the type of people who would have the patience to learn a different language than Windows. I probably receive more crap from people about being a linux user than I give, and whenever I bring up that I'm trying to figure out something, they always poke fun and say, "If you used Windows you wouldn't have that problem." Basically my use of linux comes down to a small list of things:

1 - I enjoy the challenge.
2 - I want to prove to myself that I can do it.
3 - I want an operating system that doesn't get it's bulk from expansive driver databases and useless programs.
4 - Lastly, I spent just as much time tweaking Windows as I do Linux.

I don't think I've ever seen a problem with someone selling their software if it was a quality product. I think that's why Linux users don't really attack Apple like they do Microsoft, they put out a very stable operating system. It's possible that if Linux became the dominant operating system that Linux Zealots would change to Atari DOS zealots or something. Do what you like - it doesn't effect me.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-10 12:40 am (UTC)

it has valid points.

I do use linux and I do like linux and I do think linux is much easier to use than windows for me, but I have to admit this list does have valid points and it is something that average geeks should think about. Not that I believe that average is capable of thinking... After all there is no big difference between "i hate linux" and "i hate windows" attitudes.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 04:06 am (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

There is, however, a big difference between, "Linux sucks" and "I hate Linux."
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 01:04 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

Yes. About the same difference like between "windows sucks" and "I hate windows".

But, anyway, stating that OS "sucks" takes a bit more expertise than people who state that normally have. Emotions (hatred) towards OS is a sure sign of lack of what we call "real life".

Can't one just have OS of his/her choice instead?
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 03:07 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

Most of the people I see saying "Windows sucks" have only minimal experience with it. Most of the people I see saying "Linux sucks" have extensive experience with both it and other UNIX and non-UNIX based OSes. But, that's my experience.

Additionally, I think a community like this is created more in response to the Linux fanboys than anything else - those who have only tried Windows and Linux (and maybe a classic Mac and/or DOS), but not another unix, and therefore think Linux is the best OS ever. Like all operating systems, Linux has its faults, but these people seem blind to them. I suspect this community was created in response to those people.

Additionally, no, I can't just have an OS of my choice, because it would vary depending on what I needed to do. If you check, you'll see I'm not a member of this community. I use Gentoo Linux on my desktop. My server runs FreeBSD. I have a box that runs Windows for when I want to game. I use the best tool for the job.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 05:31 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

I do not suggest that people have their OS of ultimate choice. I'd rather agree with you about the best tool for the job (especially gaming:)). I suggest to have the preferred OS instead of hating or stating the suckiness of the other.

I am not going to argue about the cause of this community existance. I'm not sure if those fanboys actually made their choice between window and linux, it's more of a rebellion against windows. I think you know that most of them can not handle linux well either.

I do not agree with you about the people having extensive experience with many things and still stating that one of those sucks. I think most of the things more or less suck and if you neglect to see it, you do lack experience with it.

So why not just make things better instead?

PS: Are we arguing about something or are we just chatting? I do not see what is the point of our argument if we do :)
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 06:25 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

As far as I can tell, we're chatting / discussing some points, rather than actually arguing.

The one person I know IRL who claims Linux sucks prefers FreeBSD. He does work to make FreeBSD better - he has contributed quite a few pieces of code, and I believe he recently fixed a timezone bug.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 07:10 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

How often and how publicly does this person declare his personal dislike towards linux? I'm sure he's not into establishing linux-haters communities :)

Anyway, my initial comment to this post was not about how wrong it is to hate linux, but rather about valid points there.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 10:20 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

Actually, he's written a perl script for irssi that changes all mentions of "linux" to "poo," and vice versa. It's publicly available, and he mentions it on many channels, at least occasionally.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 10:28 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

It's nearly as constructive as putting one's skills into virus development...
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 11:17 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

It's much more constructive that you'd think. He has a perl script available on the web that shows a text replacement. It's a simple script that someone could use as an example to create their own script. Thus, it can (and has) help someone learn perl scripting for irssi. Additionally, sometimes people will ask him why he thinks Linux sucks (especially Linux fanboys). He'll then provide reasons based on fact for his opinion, thus helping others learn.

If you think this isn't constructive, perhaps you need a new definition of the word.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 11:22 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

I agree about being an example, but serving this purpose it doesn't have much to do with the suckiness of linux.

As for linux fanboys learning from his opinions, I think you overestimate them and overestimate the infulence of opinions that strong.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 11:26 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

I think you have a very poor understanding of this person, his reasons for disliking linux, and the effect he can have on others.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 11:31 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

Of course I have a very poor understanding of this person. That is why I am not talking about him and not judging him.

As for your statement about my lack of understanding of the human nature of the beast... It is nothing but your personal opinion which differs from mine. Neither of us can prove his point here, though.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-17 11:36 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

As for linux fanboys learning from his opinions
I'd say that's talking about him. His opinions are an intangible part of him.

You have also not seen the conversations I have seen, nor have you learned from one of these conversations, yourself. I have. If that is not proof that others may learn from his expressions of his opinions, I do not know what is.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-17 11:44 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

No, that's not talking about him. It's more about linux fanboys.

I have not seen the conversation. But I suppose that either do overestimate the effect, or, alternatively, he didn't sound as opinionated as the he "should" according to this general "linux sucks" attitude.

Actually, "anything sucks".
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-18 01:25 am (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

You talk about the influence of opinions that strong, in the same comment I quoted before. You are, quite clearly, talking about my friend's opinions, and therefore, about him.

Also, one cannot feel strongly about something and still be able to teach on the same subject? I fear, if that were the case, we would not have many teachers.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-18 01:49 am (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

But of course it's not that it has nothing to do with him. I do not talk about him, though. You quoted "As for linux fanboys learning from his opinions". What is the subject here, grammatically speaking?

And we do not have many worthy teachers.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-18 02:15 am (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

And we do not have many worthy teachers.
And all of the good ones I've known have felt passionately about their subject.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-18 01:19 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

I can imagine English literature teacher feeling passionately about literature. And he should. But try to imagine one, carving on the walls "Wilde Rulez" and "Gallsworthy sucks", telling everyone how he hates Kipling and having his fun replace "Shakespear" to "fakespear". The teacher whose subject is limited to one writer, however good he is, is somewhat narrowminded.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-18 05:02 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

And who said my friend was limited to but one OS (comparing an OS to a writer, as you appear to be doing)? Yet again, you assume things about him that are false. He is knowledgeable and talented with a number of operating systems, including Linux.

You continue to assume that my friend's statements that "Linux sucks" are filled with bigotry and hatred. They are not. It is a statement made almost in jest to watch the fanboys and zealots attempt to defend the operating system. Few are able to counter his points, and most argue very poorly, because they argue from an emotional viewpoint, while my friend argues from one founded on logic and fact. It is great entertainment for his more knowledgeable friends, and a great way to pick up a few random facts for those of us who are less knowledgeable.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-18 05:12 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

No. Once again, I do not assume anything about your friend. All I am trying to tell you is that the "linux sucks" attitude is not a good starting point for teaching. All I am trying to tell you is that if he IS a good teacher, he's not exposing this attitude much at the time he's "teaching".

And, while these disputes may be entertaining, they're not likely to serve educational purpose at the same time. Provided that they're governed with the aforementioned attitude.

Actually, I see a contradiction here. If he does use linux, I would not value his "linux sucks" statement. If he does not, he is short of knowledge. Of course, not comparing to ignorant fanboys. But the knowledge has absolute value, not only in comparison with those who lack one as such. Here is what makes OS different from writers. Provided you have good memory you can read once and that should be enough. With writers. And still exposing "Gallsworthy sucks" attitude when teaching does sound ridiculous.
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[User Picture]From: equiraptor
2004-12-18 05:17 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

How on earth does using something mean you can't validly think it sucks? One can choose to use something they think sucks without invalidating that opinion. I think my parents' cars suck, yet I still drive them at times.
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From: sesquipedalien
2004-12-18 05:24 pm (UTC)

Re: it has valid points.

I think you're right here. I should've said voluntarily uses. And if I do not use something I can validly think it sucks, true. I do think that MacOS sucks, but while my opinion is valid I do not think it's valuable. I do not value it myself.
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[User Picture]From: rsod
2005-12-18 03:56 am (UTC)

I guess I'll give this a shot.

-Outsourcing low skilled jobs is a shining example of capitalism in action, but outsourcing IT jobs is the most evil crime ever - unless Rob Malda works for the company that's doing it.

I really don't like outsourcing all jobs outside the area recieving the service because of localization problems. However, if the market demands it and the price is well worth those problems, fine. We're transitioning into a more global economy and it will take decades to reach equillibrium.

-Apple's proprietary video format is a brilliant idea, but Microsoft's is an abuse of their market position.

I've personally always hated Apple's Quicktime format and player. The way they implement it, and the blatant disregard for people's machine resources (having the quicklaunch installed by default and not having a clear way to turn it off) is infuriating.

-The large number of worms is enough to get the average user to switch to a secure OS like Linux, even though most of these worms have spread because average users can't be bothered with security.

A very keen point. If they spectrum of operating systems were more diverse many attacks would be thwarted. Not to mention that Windows (and a few of the commercial Linux distros) run everything as superuser. Many of those worms would be halted by making the normal user accounts more useful instead of requiring superuser for everything (installing programs and whatnot).

-Microsoft supported companies running anti-OSS stories is an abuse of power, but Slashdot is an impartial and OSDN owned balanced source of news.

You think Slashdot is about distributing news? That might have been true years ago, but /. has degenerated into a huge wanking session. I personally read it as entertainment. They are consistently weeks late with most headlines.

-Linux is as easy to use as Windows, which is why some tech companies make a fortune out of training courses and Bible sized manuals.

Linux isn't easy to use for most people. I won't even consider trying to convert someone who has little computer experience (barely understand the explorer file system). I just happen to be curious. Usuability will come when more of the OS becomes standardized.

-Microsoft are wrong to make money off support fees, but for Redhat it's OK.

I personally think MS and Redhat charge too much for their products. I've also had more luck with the user community than with the help lines. They can both have their support business.

-DMA is bad, unless it's for ITunes.

If you mean Digital Rights Management, then you're wrong, it's bad either way. If you're willing to pay for it though, go ahead. I'll shop indie. It doesn't bother me.

-Interfaces and concepts should not be patentable, unless it allows Apple to file a lawsuit against MS.

Ideas themselves shouldn't be patentable without proof-of-concept implementation. There should at least be a prototype for the idea before it can file for a patent. We can't help that the system is broken, so it's perfectly legal. Hopefully someone will eventually understand that and fix it.

-All software should be open source, unless it's owned by Sourceforge or Apple.

There is room for closed source. I would personally pay for games on Linux. I know many would never dare, but open source isn't for everyone. The main problem is that many closed source packages don't follow existing standards which makes interoperability very difficult (i.e. the current document format wars) and causes headaches all around. MS is just trying to lock everyone into their formats and not willing to either compete with features or lower their prices.

But, you know, use the software you want. No one is stopping you.
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From: chadmccullough
2008-04-04 06:23 pm (UTC)

what????

Most of the comments in your post make absolutely no sense at all.......
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